-By Satyajit Mishra
No brides or grooms
available for "Karan" cast in orissa
you may come across pattanaiks, mohantys or kanungos across
orissa. they are basically karan casts who are very much familiar and
appears omni present in the state as the incumbent CM, Mr Janaki Pattanaik, CM
for 16 years or the legendary Biju Pattanaik all belong to this caste. But
similar to the Parsi community in Mumbai, this cast is in a down sliding mode
atleast in the bridal bazzar there is a heavy shortage of karan candidates
of both the genders.
Mr. Shankar Dash, who hails fro Jajpur and living in Bhubaneswar
for last 16 years and a marriage
mediator by proffessin, reveals that karan candidates are very few at his
disposal unlike khandayat, Brahmin or Teli cast candidates. Most of the
Karan brides are aged and there is not a single suitable match for them. Most
of the karan boys who were in his diary earlier opted for love marriage in other castes so far.
Suna sansar, a reputed marriage
bureau in Bhubaneswar reveals the
same data. as there is a scarcity of such candidates, now the karan parents opt
for intercaste marriage to their nearest cast, the khandayats.
all have a common but firm opinion that intercaste marriage
is the only option to get rid of this dangerous problem.
So far there is no population strata availiable about this
caste. karans are mostly centered in Khurdha, jagatsinghpur, cuttack
and puri district where as they are sprinkled across the state in bits and
scraps. Known for their enterprising skills karans are placed highly in
every sectors of the state. But gauging by their downsizing number, our CM
should marry a karan girl and be an agent to solve the problem, the sceptics
Truth is one, there is no second to it. even if there is is
no data to back the truth still the truth remains as such. ask any marriage bureaus or the mediators in
orissa who are long dealing with suitable candidates, they will be equivocal
that its far more difficult to find a suitable karan match. THE REASONS :their
numbers are vey few ,their is really a shortage of candidates within that age
I have surveyed it across BBSR during my stay
here and publish this article. so far as my brush up with constitution of India
is concerned, no way it flouts the fundamental rights. so i request the
group members to shun dogmatic ideas and welcome the views which may be bitter,
but works towards a progressive objective. If my survey doesn't coincide with
any data. this will not harm anyone, but think, by finding some ways we may
save this cast. we will not let them turn in to another parsi community. so
I think we should start a healthy debate on intercaste
A cross-national study of the effect of intercaste marriage
fertility in India
and the United States.
The purpose of this study was 1) to determine the effects of intercaste
marriages on fertility in India (high-low caste marriage) and the
United States (white-black marriage);
and 2) to compare the demographic
characteristics of intercaste
married couples in India and the United
States. The sample consisted of 366 intercaste
and intracaste married
couples in India
and the U.S.
The data revealed that in both countries
intercaste married couples had
a significantly lower number of children
than intracaste married couples. As between Brahmin or Chamar subcaste
in India and as
between whites and whites and between blacks and blacks
in the U.S. The
main conclusion was that intercaste
fewer children than intracaste marriages
From Gita – Gita Bans Inter caste Marriages ??
"By overthrow of houses perisheth
Their sweet continuous household piety,
And- rites neglected, piety extinct-
Enters impiety upon that home;
Its women grow unwomaned, whence there spring
Mad passions, and the mingling-up of castes,
Sending a Hell-ward road that family,
And who so wrought its doom by wicked wrath.
Nay, and the souls of honoured ancestors
Fall from their place of peace, being bereft
Of funeral-cakes and the wan death-water.
So teach our holy hymns."
The words Kula Dharma and Jaati Dharma and Varna-Shankara(Hybrid)
clearly mentioned in Gita.It says Inter-Caste marriage leads to hell.
Indian Census FindingsIn terms of growth of different religious communities, Hindus showed adecline over the previous decade, their population growing by 20%during 1991 and 2001 as compared to 22.8% during 1981-91.Muslim Population Catching Up FastThe Muslim population grew by 29.3% during 1991-2001, compared to 32.9%during 1981-91. According to India's right-wing Hindu organizationVishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), if the current trend continues, thepopulation of Muslims in India would equal that of the Hindus by 2051.
The size of population studied seems to be less to
derive at any authenticated conclusion.However this requires further
study and evaluation
-By Sahadeva Sahoo
Geeta starts on demeaning womanhood. Arjun laid down arms
first as he said women get polluted in absence of elders whom he will kill if
war is fought. Krishna explains it is the dharma (dharma
here does not mean religion, it means a caste oriented profession) of
Kshatriyas to fight for one's rights. Geeta eulogises a war on disputes over
property, property happens to be a kingdom.
Read Chapter 9 stanza 33 which praises Brahmin and Kings
(Kshatriyas) and the earlier stanza 32 which equates women with sudras and
vaishyas who are of lower birth (papayonaya - born of sinful womb). How
can Srikrishna say it ignoring that he is born of a woman?
No need to cite examples of interpolations made into
the Geeta. Geeta is a part of the Mahabharat which eulogises intercaste marriages of Pandava brothers and valour
of their progenies.
By Jibanendra Mahanty
LET US PROMOTE INTER CASTE
MARRIAGES AMONGST ORIYAS
Dear Shri Mishra,
If my reading is right, I think you are concerned about the
population of Oriya Karans and their marriage
problems. I also get the
impression that you are a Votary of Inter-Caste Marriages and intend to
encourage Inter-caste marraiges in Orissa. Certainly these are very noble
thinking, and you deserve appreciation.
As a good solution to save the KARANS, to start with, we may
inter caste marriages amongst Oriya Brahmin and Karan candidates, to
exploit the strong traits of both the forward thinking
From my own experience, I have come across Social workers, Senior Defence
personnel and highly educated technocrats ( with a lot of Degrees) who
deliver good impressive lectures on Inter-Caste marriages to the Public,
but when their own time comes for selecting a Bride or Groom, they go back
to the age old orthodox domain, insisting upon Caste,Gothra, H'cope, minm
age difference of FIVE years (bride shd be younger than the Groom by minm 5
years), etc. etc. Thus they preach, which they do not practise, and vice
Perhaps there is a need for Social Reform in this direction, to achieve
better social harmony and unity, and also to save the enterprising Karan
-By Sreejit Mahanty
I respect the personal views of some of the members here. We
tend to forget that in the vedic era caste was determined on the basis of
profession and conduct. Further, the view that marriage must be solemnised between persons of the same caste
has a deeper social meaning to it. However, in the present times all those
factors stand diluted. There is no yardstick to distinguish between a sudra or
a brahmin apart from their surname. In these changed circumstances social norms
must change. Therefore, it is a person's individual right to chose his or her
life partner. People who want to follow traditions are free to follow what
they believe to be right. Similarly in case of two persons who prefer not to
follow these traditions there should not be any opposition.
-By Manoj Padhi
I agree with Mr. Mohanty's version that "it is a
person's individual right to chose his or her life partner". The Rejection
of "Karna" by Draupadi in Mahabharata is such an example. Even though
Karna was a King and possesses all qualifications , his caste played the most
vital factor for his rejection.
Another way what is noticed is the body odour of
certain caste people, e.g. take case of fisher man or some specific village
telegu dominated areas. They don't care of cleanliness and little bit fashion.
So when a bride/groom of upper caste looking for such a case sets his mind that
the whole community's body odour is the same. So in order to promote such
events, lower caste people must be educated enough to live a simple but well
mannered and hygienic life. This is my thought after seeing situation of
southern part of Orissa and staying in a Village for about 12 years where
streets are divided based on caste/community.
Only thing I am concerned about the survey which says, Inter
caste marriage will have less
kids - this will frighten people opting for it as what if ZERO kids. So people
planning for such events get validate the survey results in their own interest.
-By Umashankar Das
Fertility is typically based on sociological
characteristics. If a survey says that intercaste
marriage breeds infertility i
would like to question the sample size of the survey.
Secondly, this survey mentions that this was done in USA.
Now, where did caste come in such a survey? It must talk about multi-ethnic
Marriage is a question of
prefernce, but the sad part is promoting such surveys tends to influence people
into believing that such facts are true, but the reality would be something
Multi-ethnic societies are absolute realities in the progression of
civilisation. I will make a case study for you.
Commonly, if you look at europeans they would be considered the so-called White
people. But if you look at Europe, people from Southern
europe display a very different tendency in terms of looks. Most
Italians, spaniards, protuguese are typically having BLACK hair,
But if you go to the Northen part of europe, countries
, Germany most
people would typically be blondes. The reason why people from southern Europe
look different is because of Intermixing of these people with Asians from Central
ASia and Middle east. for reference please
search about Moors etc.
Even certain East European countries boast of similar lineage. If you remember
the name of Attila the Hun , he was an invader from Central Asia
who attacked Eatsern europe, His people settled in Hungary
and current Turkey.
Hungarians typically look multi-ethnic.
These facts should prove that Multi-ethnic does not promote infertility. They
are a natural progression in civilization.
Another aspect is that a fisherman's son studies in college and becomes a
engineer, then he wont smell like a fisherman. The problem is that from
childhood we seem to teach our children, that person is a lower-caste and such similar
stuff. This is why people find it difficult to get married because of lack of
prospective candidates in their caste.
Until we have attitude changes such problems will continue. Solving cleaniness
issue will not make any difference, since in my opinion the most unclean people
i know of are the Puri pandas who spit on the Roads of Puri. Cleaniness is not
a question of the caste but that of civic behavior which is a social problem.
-By Sandip Dasverma
This is regarding the inter caste marriage.
The survey most likely does not exist as even though challenged Mr. Brahman has
not been able to present any credible reference. In these days of Internet -
any information can be googled. Any research paper that can't be googled, can
be referenced by the name of the magazine or research institution. If not it is
most likely fictitious, thus junk. If not we should use it for family planning
purposes as has already been humorously suggested by some one earlier. But
seriously - this might rationally happen as intercaste
marriage usually involves
liberated men and women - who have been liberated by higher education. And it
is a well known fact that family size is inversely proportional to the level of
education, all over the world.
Regarding Gita as a justification of caste. The lines quoted by Mr. Brahman, I
have read thoroughly many years back. We have to take it with proper
perspective and environment.
Gita also says that Universe is made up of 5 elements - Earth, Sky, Air, Water
and Fire. We now know that there are no such elements. Thus it is not - it is
made up of 112 plus elements. We have to understand that that was the level of
human knowledge at that time of history.
Gita states that if lower caste men, marry upper caste men(not the reverse) -
basterds are born(jayate barna sankara). Interesting is not it? However in
Mahabharata itself - Pandava and Kaurabas are only 3/4th Khatriya and nothing
to do with "Chandra bansa" or lineage.
Because widower King Santanu fell in love with Satyabati, daughter of a fisher
man whom he married. Since she wanted her sons to be king as a condition of marriage, Vishma vowed to remain
celibate. The two sons out of this marriage
could not produce children. So Rishi Vyas(1/2 non Khyatriya), who was also the
elder son of Satyabati was invited to impregnate their wives(khatriya). The
result were the two brothers Dhritarastra and Pandu of the queens.
And then again Kunti or Madri bearing their children which had nothing to
do with the so called blood of "Chandra bansa" or moon clan. If you
carefully read Mahabharata thus, with a modern 21st century mind, you will find
scandal after scandal.
Be it as it may.
Actually, I think Mahabharata depicts the complexity of the real world and we
have to take it in that spirit. It does not matter how one is born but if he
should persevere upward mobility is possible, this has been shown in
Mahabharata - Satyabati a fisher woman becomes queen of Ayodhya- (Manoj babu
may not like the smell but don't even dare to complain - she is the queen - she
decides not you - just kidding). And Karna becomes a king, while known to be a
son of a row man, ( secret of his birth not known yet).
So what is his Dharma? Is he row man or King?
Actually, I think if you study and qualify to be an Engineer your caste is
Engineer. And your brother who qualifies as a doctor is a Doctor by
caste. And Sahadeva babu is Karana by caste, being the highest
administrator of the state. He is also Brahman by caste because he was also the
Vice Chancellor a established University, OUAT. I am sure our Mr. Brahman will
agree that Mr. Sahu is more Brahman as VC of OUAT than the temple panda who
spits on the wall or 22 steps(baisa pahancha), misbehaves with young rural
women and rudely demands money from the religious tourists or bayes praise for
rich man who whips out a Rs. 500 note.
I agree with Uma babu that multi ethnic societies are progresses in
society. And the problem is aptly stated here:
" that a fisherman's son studies in college and
becomes an engineer, then he wont smell like a fisherman. The problem is that
from childhood we seem to teach our children, that person is a lower-caste and
such similar stuff. "
How do we get out of this? By actively being aware of the issues and by being
I do not think there was any deeper meaning of marrying within the caste than
keeping the structure such that mobility was made very difficult for some and
privileges were defined by birth. We tend to forget that it was very brutal at
times - remember Sambuka being killed in Ramayana for reading the scriptures?
This behavior of the feudal society was universal - remember seeing
"Roots"? The law was that if a slave ran away his ankle cord was
amputed but if he/she was found reading a book(bible) the punishment was
When the Zero sum game(the fall of one feudal family could only allow rise of
another) of society changed with the advent of industry - west changed in 20th
century. Our society is still in a semi-feudal state. Else why a lady software
engineer has to bring enough dowry with her to a spouse who is also a
I can go on and on and on. The time has come to dump caste ism to the dustbin
of history - one civilized way is to promote intercaste marriages. You will be probably shocked to know
that 1st marriage of a harijon
girl and Brahman boy happened in Bari ashram of Late Gopabandhu Choudhruy in
1935 or so. (see life of Gopabandhu Choudhury - Dipam Jyoti by Late
Gopinath Mohanty). From around this time Gandhiji refused to take part in any marriage where either groom or bride
was not from a harijon caste.
The society has not progressed much in last 70 years, because those who
followed did not keep up the spirit.
I am very happy that the discussion is in very good spirit and such erudite men
as Sahadeva babu and others are participating - with excellent attitude and
rationally approaching a very delicate issue.
It is really nice to have such a discussion about inter
caste marriage. Well, I would
tell that the ambiguity is itself is the solution and that is totally contained
in the discussion. Being a brahmin, I have already read The Gita several times.
I have learnt that it is really a nice thing to follow to have a better
life in this world. The Gita says that we are "agyan" like that of
Arjun and the nature is the "gyani" like that of
Srikrishna. "Dharma" means the duty and KARMA is
determined as per the profession/duty of a person. It is what is described
there. No one is small or big. It is determined by the attitude, karma and
dharma. More over, the life is constituted of different phase. It is basically
described there. And, one can have any kind of life one wants. If it is simple
then he/she has to follow sanyasa yoga or bhakti yoga. If he/she follows gyani
yoga it is not so easy and it takes time for some one to get mokhya. For a
common man it is always to follow karma yoga through which one gets gyana and
then would like to follow the right path and just set his/her mind in satya.
Then he/she can go towards mokhya by understanding the ultimate goal. All these
things are irrespective of castism. It is not only for brahmin or khyatriya but
also for any one in the society. Brahmin is the one who has the knowledge of
brahma. It does not mean that a person with holly threads (paita) bearing is
the brahmin. If you minutely study from our society you would realise that the
person who is really a good human and is in good profession is very well
respected as compared to the others. If you know "brahma" then you
must respect any human and any jiba or anything in which you realise it has
god. Thus the most important thing is to realise what is good and what is bad,
what is appropriate and what is not. It is not the caste that determines this.
It is the level of knowledge and wisdom of a person which determines
this. More over, the castism is based upon the past professions as
discussed by people here. In recent periods also one must follow through
professions rather than past system of castism. Accordingly the person is
respected in the society but not based upon the caste.
As far as marriage
is concerned, it depends upon some of the factors like, personal prospective,
family prospective, profession and also type of behaviour/attitude in general
and for some people the caste as per the ancient vedic based society and also
money and establishment in particular. However, it must be left to the
individual and if required his/her family to decide about this rather than a
society. The society must not impose him/her to marry a person from his/her
caste if he/she is not happy with this. Life is to live not to die at each
moment. If you are not happy as you are married against your wish then
there is no meaning of it.
Coming to the fertility or having kids; these things
are completely biological and also to some extent personal thought or
principle. It can happen irrespective of caste/religion. Thus, one should not
argue based upon this factor.
I hope I did not give much pain to every one.
By Gyana Ranjan
While respecting all the views, I feel It is one's KARMA
that makes him/her known in the society. If a Brahmin indulge himself in
low grade anti-social activities than he can't be considered as a Brahman. We,
the human beings, made / creat this catagory to suit our need depending on our
dominance in the society. (Dominance is a so called social factor which changes
with the time. where ever we go, we will find it. It could be Men dominating Women,
Father /Mother dominating the family affair, A caste dominating other
caste in a society, a states / some state dominate the affair of a
country, US dominance over other )
If the need to get married (caste does
not a barrier), desire to marry someone (to be in love with
someone from other caste) of a person is clear, so it is his ultimate
goal/objective which gives him/her utmost satisfication on its attainment than
If a person after getting married, in his own
caste, found living in hell than where is question arise to be in
heaven. It is the matter of two loving, understanding heart that's
makes a wonderful marriage
life whether it is Intracaste or Intercaste.
I don't know how much you will agree with me?